Podcast Season 6, Episode 1 Transcript
Babette Faehmel
Welcome to Many Voices, One Call. This is Season Six, Episode One. My name is Babette Faehmel, history professor, and the faculty host of this podcast. I'm joined today by my two student co-hosts: Ashley!
Ashley Lucie Lumbala
Hi, my name is Ashley Lumbala. I'm an outgoing Empire State Corp Service Intern, and um obviously I entered in civic engagement. This is my last episode as your co-host on Many Voices, One Call.
Babette Faehmel
Well, we might get you back for a guest appearance.
Ashley Lucie Lumbala
Well, I won 't come back as a co-host if it's a guest thing.
Babette Faehmel
Right, right. And then: Warren Baynes.
Warren Baynes
Hi, I'm Warren, and I am the new um co-host and the new incoming State Service Corp Civics Intern.
Babette Faehmel
And this is a follow-up episode to one that we did last semester on the topic of young people's declining faith in the political system. And we came out of that episode with a lot of unanswered questions and also with a lot of new ones. So we realized in order to answer those unanswered questions, we really need to talk to some political scientists. And so we invited them, um, and they answered the call. Um, and also we uh have with us today a representative of the local news media. So here with us in the studio is Amalini Fernando, who is currently working on a doctorate in political science at the University at Albany, where she specializes in policy related to technology and data privacy, and she's also a fellow with the Center for Women in Government and Civil Society at Rockefeller College. Hi, Amalini.
Amalini Fernando
Hi, Babette.
Warren Baynes
We have, uh, Erica Smith, journalist journalist and managing editor for digital at the Times Union Albany.
Babette Faehmel
And Wendy. Wendy Johnson, professor of political science and chair of the social science division at SUNY Adirondack.
Wendy Johnson
Hi Babette.
Babette Faehmel
Hi!
Ashley Lucie Lumbala
We have Sally Friedman, the Associate Professor, Department of Political Science, Rockefeller College of Public Affairs and Policy . SUNY.. SUNY Albany. Hi, Sally.
Sally Friedman
Hi, and also a Knick's fan.
Warren Baynes
We have um joining long dis long distance is Dr. Joseph Scanlon, Associate Professor for Pol for Political Science at SUNY Monroe Community College and SUNY Civic Discourse and Civic Engagement Fellow from 2024 to 2025.
Babette Faehmel
And also R.J. Haq, Assistant Director of Civic Engagement at the University at Buffalo, where he chairs the UB Votes Committee. And R.J. is also an adjunct professor of political science, and he just finished a year as SUNY Civic Discourse and Civic Engagement Fellow. Hello.
R.J. Haq
Thank you for having us.
Babette Faehmel
And R.J. Okay, all right. We are recording at the end of June. We will actually be publishing in August. So, dear listener, please don't um blame us for not talking about things that haven't happened yet in our world here.
What Political Scientists Actually Study
Babette Faehmel
And also before we can really get into the weeds and into our questions, we um let's let's let's start by talking about what political scientists actually do. So, um, of any of the political scientists here, would anybody want to talk about what your field entails? Wendy.
Wendy Johnson
Um so uh political scientists, um one, I get two reactions when I say this is what I do for a career, and one is for them to be more intrigued and ask questions, the other is for them to turn around and walk away. Um a lot of people hear politics and they think um what we do is very partisan and um politically driven in that way, but it's not. Um we are there to examine both parties, all parties. We're looking at, it's a behavioral science. We're looking at behaviors of our political leaders, of our voters, the electorate, um, those that don't vote, why don't they vote? Why don't they engage? Um, the impacts of media and technology, right? So we're really analyzing it from that social science perspective.
Babette Faehmel
Okay. Well, you you might have a lot of explaining to do. Oh yeah. Um and does anybody want to add anything?
R.J. Haq
Yeah, um, if I just to add to that answer, uh I would say, you know, yeah, when I'm talking with my students about political science, uh, we often talk about political science giving us the tools to separate uh what we feel like is happening from what research actually shows what's happening. Um so you know, political science is truly an empirical discipline, uh, you know, uh especially we are very quantitative. Um, you know, and we focus on institutions, incentives, behavior, participation. Uh and again, this is not through a partisan lens, right? Uh it's through uh, you know, a political science lens. So uh when I'm teaching courses, when I'm talking with students, it's always about you know what people perceive, what the political science research actually shows, why that matters, and then the more you know real world, uh, you know, practicemic as I am at the intersection of uh you know implementation and research, you know, what citizens can actually do with this information.
Babette Faehmel
So uh so the practical aspects that's gonna be intriguing as well. So Joe, you you raised your hand and then Amelini.
Joseph Scanlon
Oh yeah, it was just uh I always kind of default to the textbook definition. Um, you know, that politics is about the pursuit of authority and power, you know, to make binding decisions. So political science is essentially, you know, about those human interactions that relate to acquiring authority and power, right? To have influence in politics. And that political science is really the study, and I think this is one of the things that makes it hard to define of everything. Um, because that also includes not just the formal rules and laws that structure our behavior, but it also includes those informal, you know, norms and standards of behavior that relate to our um politics and political behavior. Uh so really it's just uh it's a study of everything, and so much of what we encounter, and I think this is what our students don't realize, is related to politics. So much of what we encounter is related to political decision making in some capacity. Um, and so I oftentimes think students, when they hear political science, they just think, oh, I'm gonna go study whoever is running for Congress from whatever district in Missouri. Um, it's so much more than that.
Babette Faehmel
And I just saw a statistic, it's actually a growing field, like a high demand field. It's probably not surprising now that we know what you guys do. So, Amalini.
Amalini Fernando
Uh, when I tell people that I study political science, I can't tell you how many times people have asked me if I'm interested in running for office. Oh. If I want to be the next president, the next uh governor or mayor. And I try not to roll my eyes at them and answer and say, no, it's more than that. Um the textbook definition of politics is as Harold Laswell says, who gets what, when, and how. That's what we study. Who gets what, when, how, and why. And for that, we look at political parties, political systems, political behavior. It's not just what happens in front of a camera, but also what happens behind closed doors in the negotiation, the uh the compromise that goes into it as well.
Babette Faehmel
Okay, thank you.
Is Politics Just Performative Now
Babette Faehmel
Okay. Well, you guys, are you ready for questions?
Warren Baynes
Yup. Um few students today are, like, they don't like talking about politics as much as the older generation does. And they actually see it as pretty performative sometimes. How do you guys do you guys think that what they're saying is accurate?
Sally Friedman
Um part not quite the answer, but but I feel like people don't like to disagree. So so in class when I teach, um, you hear hesitation. We've had good discussions, but but I feel like people hesitate to want to disagree with each other or give the other side or really get into an argument. So I think there's a hesitation, especially in a partisan climate, I think there's a hesitation to just want to get into the argument world or the disagreement world.
Babette Faehmel
Hmm. Okay. Wendy?
Wendy Johnson
I think to the part where young people are feeling that it's performative, um, there's some legitim legitimacy to that in our hyper-technical world right now. Um social media certainly. Um, you know, people are getting on the air and espousing all sorts of things as we were talking before the show. Um, and so there is a lot of that in front of the camera performance happening. Um, but if that's only what we're looking at and we're not digging deeper, then we miss the bigger picture from that.
Babette Faehmel
Amalini, do you want to add to that?
Amalini Fernando
Yeah, I mean, I think there's some truth to that perception uh because if you are only getting your news through social media, then all you are seeing is that performative um politics. Um and there's constant outrage in that kind of uh politics that you see on on your screens.
Babette Faehmel
Right.
Amalini Fernando
And so you miss the bigger picture that there's so much more behind the scenes as well. Um I think we need to look at other avenues and other venues
Warren Baynes
Right.
Amalini Fernando
Uh... to truly understand politics.
Babette Faehmel
That's what I was just wondering because we had also talked about like when we when we questioned how accurate this perception is, um, if it's if it's maybe a media -related problem. Um and so I mean we have we have a we have a technology expert and a media um expert, a practitioner of journalism with us here today. So, Erica, how do you see the issue?
Erica Smith
So is the media the problem?
Babette Faehmel
Well, yes and no.
Erica Smith
I mean, it it also depends on what type of media we're talking about. Let's stick with news media first of all, right? So that weeds out movies and all kinds of music and all kinds of other things there that are media.
Warren Baynes
Right.
Erica Smith
So if we're talking about news media, then we're also in an environment now where there's a lot of partisan news media. You know, that then you're looking big picture, you're looking at Fox News versus MSNBC or MS Now, as it's called now. Um, those are very different things. Both of them work to keep people in that silo. There's a lot of programming around keeping you here, keeping you tuned in, keep coming back to just me. Um and that's where I think local media plays an important role.
Babette Faehmel
Yeah.
Erica Smith
Um, because, you know, it usually if you say, well, the media, the media is so biased, right? I mean, just everything they put out is just utter garbage. It's because you don't agree with what we're saying. If you agree with what we're saying, then we are brilliant. If you don't, then we are absolutely terrible. And it flips, right? It can flip like on different issues. Um, we try to walk that line of in the middle, right? I don't care what party you vote for, I don't care what party you are or not are not a member of. Um, my job is to help hold the powerful to account and to make sure that politicians, um, are in this case are working to serve the public good, not just themselves. Um, so there's a lot that goes into that. And then, of course, there's you know, news media involves a lot more than reporting on government and politics and that kind of thing, too, because we're reporting on what should you do this weekend, or what's that new business going in? Um, and so there's just a lot to try to encapsulate, to try to include in what turns out to be like a 90 second update.
Babette Faehmel
Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Uh Joe, you had your hand up.
Joseph Scanlon
Oh, um, actually I think RJ had his up.
Babette Faehmel
Oops.
Joseph Scanlon
I did, too, but I think RJ had before I did.
R.J. Haq
Sure. Hopefully, hopefully my answer will lead into Joe's. Um, so yeah, just to tack onto this conversation, I mean, you know, politics has clearly become more visible, emotional, nationalized, uh uh, you know, in the more recent years. Uh, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Americans disagree more on everything. Um, you know, research shows that elite polarization has increased dramatically, right? So elected officials of uh political elites, but mass ideological polarization is really mixed. Um and so, you know, trying to understand why people uh you know pick a party or why people use politics as a social identity uh is something that you know really helps us further understand, you know, this polarization, whether it's happening or whether it's perceived, right? Um and I think you know, when we get down to again local politics and local issues, it's much easier to talk through those differences. You know, whether we're talking about uh, you know, a data center in our in our county or not, um, you know, that is an issue that people can it's not a partisan issue. It's an issue around resources and it's an issue around um you know what you want for your community. So I think when we strip back uh, you know, some of the uh MS Now and some of the Fox talking points, and we just go down into what the actual issues are on the local level, then you see students, then you see students engaging, um, and and then you see young people engaging. Um, and and I think it really is our job as political scientists um to try to help people wade through uh some of that muck.
Babette Faehmel
Yeah, oh my gosh. Joe?
Joseph Scanlon
So yeah, I think um, you know, it's probably a mix of both. I think there's uh does seem to be some genuine polarization, but I also think what RJ said is really important, right? That the polarization that we see demonstrated um spills over maybe into our day-to-day lives. Um, and it might not be from our own genuine, if you will, um political ideas, right? They're not authentic to us. Um, you know, they're talking points that we have picked up elsewhere that we repeat. Um, and one of the things I'm always curious about is because, especially with a lot of the corporate news that people encounter, publicly traded companies, what the incentives are here, right? For very substantive news coverage or something that's a little bit more entertaining, that like social media is just gonna keep us locked in. Um, that we're gonna spend a lot of hours watching Fox, um, CNN, whatever it happens to be. Um, you know, so and then the extent to which they kind of play up that less substantive approach, less meaningful approach, um, approach that maybe doesn't necessarily educate us about our political institutions, um, policy, but it's a little bit more kind of making sports out of our politics and really playing up the competitive aspect of it. And I notice that when I watch a lot, well, I don't watch a lot of, but when I do see like panel discussions, I see a lot of people whose history in politics is competitive, elected officials, political consultants. So they're just there to win. Which means also, I think, and I think this is echoes some of what we've been hearing, is we need some new models for how we discuss politics. The old models that are adversarial or purely expert-led, where we just listen to experts, but our experiences and values aren't really a part of discussion. Those don't work anymore. And I also feed feeds into something I think is common across the board that people just really see their representation as being inadequate.
Media Incentives And Polarization Myths
Babette Faehmel
Hmm. Okay. I mean, that kind of like fits into the reports about youth disengagement and frustration with politics, because one of the last studies that I looked at was also about how just like young folks not feeling represented by like both of either party or any of the parties, and really kind of like left out of the system. Um, so uh Wendy, did you want to add to that?
Wendy Johnson
Well, I do because um unfortunately this isn't new. Um we've known if you look at the statistics over time, um we all go through the same life cycles, right? And so young people, generally we look at 18 to 24-year-olds, have historically been the least likely to participate. And there's a whole host of factors for that, um, including um you're just coming emerging as a political being in your own right. Um, you're probably going to college or pursuing a trade, right? You're not even in your career yet, very unlikely to have children, own a home. Those things are what start getting people really invested, especially in local politics, because I don't know, when you know the town budget is being voted on and your taxes are going to increase, suddenly you're paying attention. Um, so I think there's a lot that to unpack there about why young people are less engaged. And Russell Dalton did a fantastic, although flawed study. Um, and he looked at the notion of what a good citizen is. And he pinpointed at the time um baby boomer generation and older, and Gen X and younger, although um the new newest generations certainly were included in that, um, and said that we have to change how we're defining citizenship and engagement because older generations were duty bound, right? It's my duty to pay taxes, it's my duty to vote where the younger generations are engaged, not necessarily feeling like they have to vote, that they could do other things. Um, so it's just a different way of looking at it and picking apart the argument of why young people are not voting, which is not our only way of engaging.
Babette Faehmel
Right, right, absolutely.
Erica Smith
I think that same through thing holds true with being informed, right? The older generations they picked up the newspaper because it was their duty to be informed. Uh, and the younger generations pick up Instagram because they want to be entertained, right? It's a very different approach to getting information these days.
Babette Faehmel
Yeah, but it's also it's put in front of you, right? I mean, like like in the olden days, you walked maybe, I don't know, you saw all the other newspapers on the newsstand and you could see like what they are all like all about and stuff like that, and now it's so algorithmically curated what we see.
Babette Faehmel
Amalini, as a person who um researches politics and technology, do you what what do you think is is like the the technology factor here?
Amalini Fernando
I think young people pay attention to very specific issues. It could be climate change, housing affordability, technology regulation. And like one of the previous speakers said, if it's about specific issues, then they will turn up.
Babette Faehmel
Oh, okay.
Amalini Fernando
Um what we see, however, I feel like is that young people have this kind of apathy towards uh the way politics works, maybe the systems, maybe the entrenched systemic nature.
Babette Faehmel
Yeah.
Amalini Fernando
And they feel helpless, I think, that they can't change the way the system is, because oftentimes it's the older generations voting on things and making policy decisions on issues that affect young people, like housing. Um and I feel like young people, especially people below 30, is this huge block of voters that can make meaningful change, except they don't really engage in local level politics or midterms or primaries, where these ideological decisions get made and it has a huge impact in the general elections, but for some reason I feel like young people just do not participate in the electoral system.
Babette Faehmel
So they only participate at the in the big national elections and like with uh I don't know, a presidential vote and otherwise stay unengaged? Is that like how do you guys feel about that? Warren and Ashley?
Warren Baynes
Um I actually kind of agree with that. A lot of people don't even know what's going on in their backyard, but but then you know that they know what their president is doing and they know what's going on on the other side of the country, and it's like you don't even understand what's going on where you live at.
Babette Faehmel
Ah! Ashley?
Ashley Lucie Lumbala
I was actually going to ask like a follow-up question to all of you, because we're on the young people topic. Um, hearing what she said, I was going to say young people feel ignored, but at the same time, I feel like it is because they don't they don't engage, like you say, they don't engage in primaries. They don't. I wanted to ask, like, I want to know how much influence do young people actually have if they decide to participate in politics the way it is, the way older people do. Do you think that they would have as much influence?
Amalini Fernando
Yeah, I think we could look towards the New York City and the Mayor's campaign, uh, Mayor Zohran Mamdani's campaign. And and I feel like there was so much enthusiasm in young people to engage in that campaign. There was so much uh door knocking, there was so much sharing content on social media, being enthusiastic about the policies that the mayor was talking about. And on Instagram or on TikTok, whenever I see a reel or a short form video that the mayor's campaign would, you know, upload, on the comment in the comments, there will be comments like such as, that is my mayor, but I'm from Florida. But if you ask this young person who is your mayor or who's the assembly member or senator that represents you in your district, they might not even know. But they're identifying with this campaign that is far away from where they are, just because they are enthusiastic about this political candidate. And so I think, and I feel like if there were candidates who make you interested, um young people would go out and participate.
Ashley Lucie Lumbala
So it's just like Warren said: they know what's happening on the other side of the country, but they don't know what's happening in their own backyard.
Babette Faehmel
But but could that also be because like the political politicians oftentimes that they that they haven't quite found out how to use media to talk to young people?
Warren Baynes
Um, Yeah, actually I was getting ready to like kind of say piggyback off of what she said. I also think that obviously we're entering this new era of technology and stuff like that, but like in the next few years is gonna like really, really change to where young people will have a lot more power. And the way that politics is gonna be done is will be through social media and stuff like that. And you know, it's gonna look really, really different of how people get attention to people from how you used to get that that attention from people because it'll just look totally different. And I think the media is definitely gonna have a bigger part to play in it. Not even a like less lesser part to play, just like a way bigger part. And it's really, really I mean, it's kind of concerning a little bit.
Babette Faehmel
Well, yeah, I mean, in a way, isn't it already happening? Because I mean, there's a lot of politics by social media messaging now, and but not in a but but in a more polarizing way, in a kind of rage-baiting way. Wendy?
Wendy Johnson
Um Yeah, so yes and no. Okay. Um, so yes, we see a lot of that, you know, clickbait, you know, uh, you want to follow this, you know, thread that's happening. Um but when we get back to the local piece, right? Like um, you know, uh by us, the town of Queensbury, um, they're not on social media. They're they're not. Your local, um, especially your older um politicians in town governments and municipalities, they're they're just not um in that technology space. As younger people come aboard, that will change and we'll start to see more communication that way. We also have a huge digital divide, not in age, but in access. So you um, if we go not even a half hour from my campus, there are spaces that have no internet connection and very sh... a very spotty cell phone coverage. Um, so that's another problem that we have, that we don't all have equitable access to the social media um and internet um and digital content. Um, and that can, you know, create some, you know, I don't know, lack of information in um in areas uh that they're not getting the same things.
Babette Faehmel
Yeah. Oh Sally.
Sally Friedman
And and and to build on that, I mean, I mean, I think there are generational differences like we're talking about, but but like let's not assume that all young people think the same, or that all older people think the same. I was I was looking at a couple of the youngest Congress people um yesterday, and um, you know, there's they're liberal Democrat, they're conservative Republican, could say more, but it you know, um, and and I guess there's some research talking that Gen Z men are kind of least likely to support women's rights kind of stuff. And and so, yeah, generation matters, right? But but but you know, Wendy's saying, hey, there's issues of different access, all kinds of different socializations. Yeah. So so it like doesn't just go one way.
Babette Faehmel
Right, right, right. Oh, RJ?
R.J. Haq
Yeah, no, this is a great conversation. And I think at the core of it, you know, if young people want influence, they have to be organized, which has been touched on already. Um, but really to get like to the core of the question here as well, um, you know, there's often a lot of blame on the millennial and the GenZ generation, you know, why aren't you doing this? Why why isn't this happening? Um, but at some point, like, when do we reflect back and look at the decisions and the institutions that that then set up our students to you know walk into this world affects their participation? You know, participation is not just an individual choice, um, and institutions can lower or raise the barriers to participation. So just looking at New York State, my whole dissertation was around civic education. In New York State, where's civic education? Your senior year, your second semester, when all the students are already checked out, and now we're gonna do a service project to get out of it. So, how are we expecting students to go into the workforce and be prepared to be a participatory democratic citizen, you know, if they're not prepared through their public education at the at the middle, at the uh elementary, middle, and high school level. So um, you know, when we're thinking about participation for these generations, that's something that this generation now has to overcome uh in order to uh you know level the playing field.
Babette Faehmel
Yeah, and also um access to reliable and nonpartisan um information, election information. Erica, I think that's something that is very, very dear to your heart, right? And very much part of what you do for work.
Erica Smith
Yeah, so we had a primary uh on June 23rd. Um and to some earlier points, there were some races there that did not have more than two dozen people vote on them. Oh my god. So this is these are situations at local levels where a small group of people can make a huge difference. Um, but my uh one of the biggest things I do um and that I uh find particularly important is to create voter guides uh for in this case the state of New York. I created a voter guide for every county in the state of New York um in June. Um and that is not just, you know, here's the here's the highfalutin important races. That is every single race you're gonna see on your ballot, so you can be informed on that.
Babette Faehmel
Yeah.
Erica Smith
Um and information is easier to find, like we've been talking about in some case races than others. Some candidates are great about putting stuff on a social media Facebook page or a building a website. Some are not there. Um, but to try to at least get people knowledgeable on what they're going to see on their ballot, I think that states like New York, and I'm not a native New Yorker, um, also make it a little bit tricky. New York has a closed primary system.
Babette Faehmel
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Erica Smith
So for a lot of people, if you don't go and register with a party, and I'm a journalist, I do not register with a party, then you will not vote in a primary. There are a lot of races in this state that get decided at the primary level, both for Democrats and Republicans. Um, so that means it it makes people feel like they don't have a voice then. Uh and it lends to this feeling of, well, now hitch the time for the general, but I didn't get a say before, everybody else decided it, so why should I bother now? Yeah. Which is very hard.
Civic Skills are Life Skills
Babette Faehmel
Yeah, right, absolutely. Uh Joey, you had your hand up.
Joseph Scanlon
So something that RJ had said um that I thought was really interesting and was important in this conversation is civics education. And I think one of the most alarming trends that we've seen um in the past 50 years or so is the abandonment of civics education. And that includes higher education, maybe more so than K-12, um, where we've just written out a commitment to civics um in our curriculum, something that students just have to experience. And I think that greatly contributes to a lot of the issues that we are seeing. Um, that you know, people are struggling to communicate with each other, but they're also struggling to uh decipher information, to understand information. Um, and you know, obviously that's always been an issue, but I think it's becoming more of an issue. The skills that we associate with civics, the critical thinking, the collaborative, the collective action skills um that come with civics education. And those are not just for and helpful for being a good democratic citizen, those are just life skills. You apply those skills in every aspect of your life, whether it's study, whether it is as a member of the community or in the workplace, they're just important everywhere. Um, but we've kind of abandoned that to some degree, and I think that really does contribute to the conversation that we're having today, is that people in some ways also just don't know how to interact with each other, um, or really then also when it comes to information, right? How to analyze it, how to think about, how to discuss it with others, um, some of the skills that we would learn through civics education are just noticeably absent today. Um, and you know, or maybe it just we're romanticizing the past that in some time at some time previously they were there. Um, maybe in the past it was just easier to discuss because we had so few sources of information compared to what we have now. So...
Babette Faehmel
Yeah, that's a good question. Um, Ashley, you wanted to...
Ashley Lucie Lumbala
Yeah, I wanted to add up on that. So, um you do, what you're saying is that you agree with the fact that the impact on critical thinking and understanding of what is happening like in the society and politics, because of that, there has been um I would say a decrease in the understanding of politics in society.
Babette Faehmel
Yeah.
Ashley Lucie Lumbala
Okay. Would you say that would you say that that is because uh what why why? Is it only because is it only because there hasn't been um civic engagement taught in schools, or do you think that technology has to do with that too? Um how yeah, Wendy.
Wendy Johnson
Oh absolutely. Um it's it's pieces of everything. Um so one, the lack of you know, Civics 101 um for um individuals, getting down to the basics, like how do I register to vote, where do I go to vote, that that kind of thing. But then also um technology and the access that the pure access to everything that we have today in terms of information, um, I always um say it this way to my students. I use a colander as a metaphor. Um, you throw all the things into the colander and you have to have the skill set to be able to sift it out and find fact from opinion, misfact, untruths from truths, right? And if you lack those skill sets to do that, you're just gonna get this muddled picture of what's really happening.
Babette Faehmel
Yeah, but I can't can't really blame them because there's so much out there. So like they're kind of um like to decide what what is reliable, I mean, those kinds of like information literacy skills are also lacking and have not been taught for, like, or not taught enough.
Wendy Johnson
And it's not just in young people.
Babette Faehmel
No, we all have that Uncle on Facebook, absolutely.
Warren Baynes
Well, um, going on to what you said about the lack of information and literacy just in general, um, even outside of politics, sometimes people will just watch something that has a political message and watch and say, oh, that was really cool.
Babette Faehmel
Yeah.
Warren Baynes
Instead of actually like understanding there was a message to it. And it's just it's way outside of politics. People will just read and consume things that they do not understand and they'll form an opinion about it that's really not I mean, not a a horrible opinion, but it's not really a favorable, favorable opinion of what was presented to them.
Babette Faehmel
Right.
Warren Baynes
So it's just outside of politics, like they'll consume anything.
Babette Faehmel
So it's it's all about to the end being entertained.
Warren Baynes
Yeah, yeah, it definitely all goes back to being entertained. Um people just like I said, they'll just consume whatever is put in front of them sometimes, which is a little concerning because it's like they can literally put anything out there and people will just, oh, okay, this is whatever. It feels like our politics too. They can put anything out there and it doesn't matter. Yeah. And some people will just like run with it and you can ask for better, but people don't.
Babette Faehmel
Right, right. It seems like a lot is about style and posturing. Right. Okay, all right.
Erica Smith
And celebrity.
Babette Faehmel
And celebrity, right. Um, so where where do you see the responsibility then though, by the discerning consumer of media? Is isn't that like I mean, in in a way, it's also about self-regulation, right? And just picking better, better media.
Erica Smith
Well, I mean, we've talked about how civics education, media literacy is not even a consideration in most curriculums. Right. Uh, and that's just a it's a huge problem right now. To be able to discern fact from fiction, opinion from from fact, uh, is not something we actively teach anybody, no matter what age range, um, these days.
Babette Faehmel
Yeah.
Erica Smith
Which is troubling.
Babette Faehmel
Totally, absolutely. Um.
Joseph Scanlon
Yeah, um I think in some ways, and you know, talking about civics education and people's participation in the system, at least for me personally, I I kind of want to backstop that with the idea that in some way civic education and civic participation, we've kind of turned into a luxury activity, um, or allowed it to become that. Meaning, can we really fairly expect someone um who is going to work all day? Maybe they're gonna work two jobs, right? Or maybe they're in school full-time, they have family responsibilities plus a job, right? To then also invest the necessary time in really understanding who candidates are, what their policies are, especially when they maybe cannot get that directly from the media, right, in a fair, kind of authentic way. Um, in other words, then, you know, and this goes back to what was said earlier about the way our institutions can incentivize or deincentivize our political activity, um, is you know, right now are just people overloaded and the opportunity costs that um are required of being that good democratic citizen. Is that a bit of an unfair ask for some people? And how do we how do we resolve that, right? So people actually can have the time to work, um, to spend time with their friends and family, but also meaningfully and productively engage in politics.
Babette Faehmel
Right. I mean, there's there definitely seems to have been a well, I don't know. I are we once again back to romanticizing the past where people did that, but I also there seem to be structural changes that have occurred that made it harder and harder to have that kind of interaction and community and with family. And so I mean it's it's kind of uh it's tricky, tricky. Um Wendy, you had, you....
Wendy Johnson
I have so much to add to that, I think. Um when I talk to my students about it, we talked about the participation gap. Why do some people participate and participate everything from I voted to I ran for office, and why do others not? And the two variables where we know that are key to that difference is level of education attainment and income level. The and the two are not connected, which and I use my husband and I as an example. Um, so one, the higher level of education you have, the more you're likely to question, right? That's what education gives us, is the ability to pick apart things and to question it. Um, and so you're less likely to take what politicians are telling you, what media is telling you at face value, you're more likely to question and dig deeper. Um higher income gets you time and means to participate, where our lower income um citizens don't have that. Um they don't, you know, back to I think it was Joe's point, you know, you're working two jobs, right? You're you're just struggling to get food on the table for your children. You don't have time to go look up, you know, the candidate.
Babette Faehmel
Yeah, that was Joe.
Wendy Johnson
Yeah... and test out, you know, oh, this is their voting record versus what they've said in speeches and in public forums, and why don't they match? Right? And news media, even our most reliable nonpartisan media can't provide all of that to the citizens. To be an informed citizen takes time and time that we don't all have.
Babette Faehmel
Right, right. Oh my gosh, everybody wants to talk. Um Sally, let's go with you first.
Sally Friedman
Um, I was I was just gonna go back to and and reiterate the issue of responsibility. Because, like we said before, I mean, I think it's easy to blame young people. Hey, you don't know this, you don't know that. And and again, going back to what Joe said, hey, there's lots of and and what RJ said, um, you know, there's lots of reasons from institutional to no time. So I do I just feel like it's important. And and at the same time that, you know, that I mean people may have all kinds of critical thinking gaps, but but I guess I fundamentally believe that people aren't stupid. And so, and so that they can think for themselves, and I wouldn't want to push it too far that that sort of they're just sieves of you know of of of what they hear and what they don't hear. I mean, I think that could go a bunch of different ways, but but still, hey, give some credit, you know, to people to think for themselves.
Babette Faehmel
Right, right, right, right.
R.J. Haq
Go ahead, Joe. You you're you're first.
Joseph Scanlon
Oh, no, it's um, I was just you know, something that Wendy has said earlier that about running for office. Um, and that's a really important part of this story as well. Um, I actually, you know, I don't find young people to be as apathetic, but oftentimes just less trustworthy of the system. They have a range of issues they deeply care about. They might struggle to connect them to politics and how they relate to political processes and institutions. Um, but one thing that we need to do a much better job of is preparing young people for leadership, including running for office. We need to start recruiting them and training young people um at an earlier age um and really kind of be very intentional at crafting that next generation of informed, honest leadership. And also allow us to maybe move out of the pools, right? Um, and what I mean by that is so often people run for office or are elected from kind of the same pools or the same population pools, right? To maybe kind of expand that and get good quality leadership, but also right, experiences um, you know, in the in the real world that help support that leadership.
Civics Education And Media Literacy Gaps
Babette Faehmel
Yeah. Um, so one of the things that we were talking about when we met um to come up with questions for this episode was also the issue of like really like deep structural issues that have not been addressed for for quite a while. Um, Ashley and Warren, like what what what do you see as the biggest um like really deeply ingrained structural problems that you don't like or that young people want to see addressed and that they aren't seeing being addressed?
Warren Baynes
Um a surprising one, maybe I would think, is money in politics. They actually would love for that to be addressed more. I think not even young people, a lot of people would like for money and politics to be addressed because it is getting completely out of hand, these super PACs and they're just able to dump whatever money they can and just it feels like a pay-to-win system sometimes.
Babette Faehmel
Okay, and drown out like like ordinary voices. Yeah, okay, okay. So money and politics, what what what else?
Ashley Lucie Lumbala
There's something that like um I I was already thinking about. We also have it on our questions, but um uh we I'm gonna read I'm gonna read it out because it's kind of connected to what I want to know. So we we said that the current the current Congress, like the 119, is the third oldest since one um 1789. And then the president Donald Trump, according to Pew Research Center Analysis, is one of the oldest leaders of all the UN uh member states. So just 16 of the 168 uh national leaders are older than Trump. So I wanted I want to ask, um. You... he, um I think it was Joe, right? Or was it RJ? RJ talked about um preparing young preparing young people to be leaders um from a very young age and not just starting them at a specific age. When it comes to politics, I think a lot of young people, like I myself would also like to see a young person like me, because I feel like those are the people that know what we want. Those are the people that maybe understand how we do things, how we go about media, how we go about looking for, like how we go about polls, a lot of things that young people want to say out there. We do it on um social media. And I feel like having people that are so old in um politics is a disadvantage to younger people.
Babette Faehmel
And so because not only because they don't see themselves reflected, but also because the issues that people care about. Um and are are just different. Which might also be like connected to l or like the reason for why there are so many old people in in high office.
Ashley Lucie Lumbala
In high office.
Babette Faehmel
On a local um level is probably different. I hope so. But it's also probably very related to the money in politics.
Warren Baynes
Right.
Babette Faehmel
Uh RJ, you have your hand up. And I think Wendy
R.J. Haq
Yeah, of course. Yeah, I mean I think it's all interrelated, right? Because uh we have the Citizens United ruling in 2010. A lot of the people that are still in office were in office 16 years ago. And now there are a lot less constraints on spending in in uh you know in a sinister incumbent advantage. And so you know while young people might not disagree that's being a money in a speech the Supreme Court again reiterated today uh of June 30th as we're recording that you know basically unlimited money is unlimited speech. So you know I don't agree with the Supreme Court about that. I don't agree with the Supreme Court about uh you know voter ID not being a poll tax an indirect poll tax either but this is how the laws have been interpreted. So uh at the end of the day when we're when we're looking at money you know without a doubt money has uh an impact on politics. And you know because young people don't often have the money they have to then go back to the organization right uh because economic elites organized interests always have a greater policy influence than average citizens. That's like core Gillins and Page 2014 stuff right uh but at the end of the day you know the only way to counter that is organization and grassroots power um and and and working on issues that people care about right so we just talked about young people I often talk with my interns about you know why are you why are you running for something on campus when you the University Heights district right there if you got every student that lived on south campus and all the students that lived off South campus and you actually wanted to get organized you could win the councilman seat just with UB voters. So like if you really want to get things moving uh it's about you know stepping outside of your comfort zone maybe outside of you know a uh a SA position and into a real life position even if you're only 21. You know what I mean? So I think that is something that uh the Gen Z is starting to think about how can we make that true impact? And we see it with now millennial candidates and Gen Z candidates are starting to you know get people to get organized and get uh you know grassroots support.
Babette Faehmel
Okay so so there seems to be something changing like already in like out there with like more more of this energy in politics. But when when we were talking you you got really um you were very interested in this issue of political realignment. Do you think that's like do you want to talk about that?
Warren Baynes
Um yeah I I think that we are in the midst of a political realignment and new ideas are starting to become are starting to come and maybe sweep away the old ideas of how things should and can be done overall and what a government should be doing for our people especially that a lot of people are looking and like they're like oh wait our government can do this they should be doing this they should be doing that. They're getting examples ironically enough from social media and they're looking that other people's governments are operating in such a manner that it doesn't look like a circus.
Wendy Johnson
Uh-huh it looks perfectly normal and like oh my god my government is not doing that right why right and it makes you start to wonder yeah that yeah it does make you wonder uh Wendy um I'm gonna counter and say that we're not necessarily in a realignment but um a de-alignment um where we have a tremendous number of people who are no longer affiliating with either Republican or Democrat that they are um you know actually deregistering be and registering as independent um and the pro the problem with that um one is that yes some of them are truly de-aligning um no longer um you know leaning one way or the other and they they kind of become that swing vote. But some are dealigning and not being that Republican by name or that Democrat by name but yet they're still voting conservative or liberal um even though they're independent. So the question becomes how much of a dealignment are we really having and can this dealignment you know move the system in any meaningful way um and I think back to I believe Joe and um RK not RJ both made the the point of organization um it's not something that we're naturally taught how to do how to organize come together because honestly collective voice is where it's at um and if younger people could get together um and become that collective voice you're gonna move the dial more so than just a small faction here and a small faction there. So it's that organization piece. And we look back through history we look at um women um gaining you know suffrage and being organized that began with the abolitionist movement and women actually organizing getting signatures and petitions and learning from that to organize for the suffrage. So it's I think along with media list literacy civic engagement I think um how do we organize as a community of people um has to be part of that civics lessons.
Babette Faehmel
Do you think they can do that on social media?
Wendy Johnson
I think social media gives a platform to help encourage that!
Babette Faehmel
To encourage it.
Wendy Johnson
Yeah
Babette Faehmel
Okay but it does it does have to like eventually move into real life and actual physical spaces um to to find that kind of community?
Warren Baynes
Yeah absolutely.
Babette Faehmel
okay
Warren Baynes
Um, I just want to ask what should we like we expect from a dealignment when that happens like when people are starting to fall out and they're starting to not really pick a side what exactly I mean besides organizing stuff but what exactly is that going to look like in the future?
Wendy Johnson
So dealignments in the past we've had it's been we've seen cyclical movements where we've seen realignment dealignment um often when there's a realignment there the voters are changing in the electorate and they're you know no longer leaning one way they're switched and are leaning more the other way and that's when we see a change in power.
Warren Baynes
Right.
Wendy Johnson
With a with a dealignment and nobody is particularly attached to the Democratic or Republican party that get then we get into our electoral system that's really geared towards having only a two-party system the monetary um that money that goes into it and I think this is the challenge of a realignment is how do we um you know move those that are breaking away from the parties into some organized structure um to work within the system that's already there. All right because you can't change it until you get in it. So how do we get those that are fleeing from the norms to become that um I don't know that oh the words are escaping me but that mechanism of change.
Babette Faehmel
Okay. Okay and and I mean we had new parties forming in the past is ...
Wendy Johnson
Always
Babette Faehmel
...And and so do you see something like that as an essential or necessary step?
Wendy Johnson
Yes and no because unfortunately um as we look at our third party history you know some have gained more traction than others but until we change our election system they're not gonna they're not gonna gain traction.
Babette Faehmel
Right
Wendy Johnson
Um I you know I look at those that um really align with a third party like the third party represents my values they they speak the language I you know care about the issues I care about but when it comes to voting that's where the lack of efficacy comes in that it doesn't it's like if I vote for this third party candidate is my vote going to be wasted or do I give it to the one of the two major parties that is closely aligned to this third party ideal. And I think that's where it falls apart.
Babette Faehmel
Okay okay I see um Joe and and RJ raised their hand. Joe, you were first.
Joseph Scanlon
Um so something that Wendy just mentioned I think is so critical to this conversation and that is the electoral system and we really do have to wonder if um the electoral system is really exasperating our problems. And what I mean by that is that you know the two party dominance the idea of the big tent but we live in a time where I guess I would say I at least in my lifetime ideational diversity right has not been greater. And the two party system works better when those big tents and the distance between people in those big tents is a little closer um than what we have now and we have a lot of people that just don't feel comfortable they don't feel like they have a home. You know the electoral college, the Senate... that all requires constitutional amendments. There's a lot of work we could do with changing how we elect members of the House of Representatives. And one other thing I would say is that and this is a personal point so um the House of Representatives is too small. It is too small. 435 people um and this is based on the 1920 census and 1929 law um it's a much different country um and so I really think that young people and this goes back to educating people about institutions right um a path forward would be electoral system reform but I also think um grade reform to the number of people serving in the House of Representatives as well um might be helpful.
Babette Faehmel
Yeah and that comes back to like basic civic education right because I mean like where what what actually can be changed and what is pretty much locked in because it's in the Constitution or would require an amendment and then coming back to what can you do on the local political like level in order to affect bigger changes.
Babette Faehmel
RJ?
R.J. Haq
Yeah, uh, Joe set me up really well um you know one of the things that's getting a lot of attention here uh in New York City and now in western New York is ranked choice voting which is an electoral reform uh that can you know basically do what we're talking about and it's not the only one but at some point we have to break Duverger's law, which is that a single member uh winner take all districts uh automatically leads to a two-party system, right? So what all what electoral alteration are we gonna make to change that right and RCV [Ranked Choice Voting] does it; there are other theories like you know Joe saying more members if we had multi-member districts with RCV then we're really getting you know a representative look of what people want um but at the end of the day like we were talking about you know a few years ago uh the dealignment was getting almost uh you know almost to 50% independence and it always is going up and down a little bit right and a lot of it has to do with the closed primaries right a lot of people in a lot of states stay registered in a party because they have to. Um, so if we got really a good look at um you know everyone who everyone having open primaries we'd really have a true idea of what uh the partisan you know uh uh identification level is I think the other thing when we when we think about realignment - dealignment , um you know it also leads to disaffection right now um you know you look uh 10 years ago the Knight Foundation did a great study called 100 million non voters um and you know that was that was the election 10 years ago and you know we continue to see between 90 and 100 million people not vote at the presidential level which obviously like gets the most attention right um and so when we think about that it it's like as we realign are we just disaffecting more people and who who makes the decisions at the end of the day to bring these people back into the fold because it's political elites so if political elites want more people to participate then the parties need to represent people a little bit more and when I was growing up you know the Dems were considered anti-war and working peoples and so you know if they want young people to buy into their party then they should probably return to like their core messaging. If not we're just gonna see more disaffection.
Money Parties And Electoral Reform
Babette Faehmel
Yeah absolutely so um we are I like first of all you guys make me want to take like political like a politics 101 course with all those like terms you're throwing around! I want a list of them so I can put them in the show notes. But also we are we are we have been um talking for about an hour now or so and this is usually like our our cap. I would like to um bring up however some of the issues related to technology and politics. So and in in particular I'm thinking about like artificial intelligence and what that bodes for the near future and considering that we have like an expert on technology regulation and politics or well a highly informed individual. What do you see as the impact like either already here or potential of AI as a factor affecting like for one economics and like like like the income issues and job issues but also as a factor in politics and in the information environment.
Amalini Fernando
I think we need to separate the economic okay we can do that politics. Because if you take the state of New York... uh, we are a state that is a leader when it comes to finance to um healthcare education all these all these sectors that can benefit immensely by adopting AI but that's the economic base. But the politics base so much more different there's a lot of pushback especially from local communities coming um I mean towards AI - especially data centers - or even adopting AI in workplaces , in education. So, there's this fight between the two and it's really difficult to kind of reconcile between the two whereas we understand that there is like there are all these economic benefits um and that we need to be open to technology in general, be tech optimists, and try and mitigate definitely mitigate the um the negative aspects of it. We also know that we have to stay ahead in order to make sure that we remain competitive not just as a state but as a country as well but how do we reconcile uh the pushback is the bigger question.
Babette Faehmel
Yeah so there's the pushback that isn't that's an issue where you could actually have like progressive and like broad changes for the better. Do you see a potential problem with misinformation spreading like massively because of AI and then considering like the lack of civic um literacy and information literacy this really becoming like like a period of of great volatility?
Babette Faehmel
This is kind of a leading question I guess.
Wendy Johnson
I think just like any any time period where we see a major technological shift and change I mean we all know the printing press was going to be the kid the end of you know the world um Is AI going to suddenly make misinformation more you know explode? Misinformation's always been there . Um, it's certainly at the speed at which we get access to it that's gonna change um the you know one of the you know major you know those that support AI especially the business world is that it makes you know everyday things easier it it can take on those mundane tasks um it makes it easier to get that misinformation out there um I mean especially when we look at our political leaders who are on the regular embracing AI images of themselves you know as these great you know superhero like leaders um we all know I'm speaking to our current president. Um, but um again I it it's all gonna come back to media literacy information literacy civic literacy that's how we combat any misinformation whether it's AI generated or just somebody speaking on a podcast.
Babette Faehmel
Right right, absolutely absolutely. Um Joe, you had your hand up.
Joseph Scanlon
I was just gonna say in some ways I think it's not necessarily technology but how we decide to use it,
Babette Faehmel
Yeah
Joseph Scanlon
um but also how we're incentivized to use it, So, how people are incentivized to use social media right now is oftentimes very individualistic, self-indulgent, right? A platform for attention, status, monetizing odd behaviors, um, you know, so that's not helpful. Um, you know, so, I think it's really how we collectively decide but also how the powers that be who own and control the technology. The one thing that really me concerns about the technology, and Babette, I think you've heard me say this before, is just how few people control it. And what that's going to mean in terms of the information we have available, um... how we access it um because especially with AI it just seems like a small number of people um a small number of corporations are exerting a significant amount of control right over this um emerging sector.
Babette Faehmel
Mm-hmm absolutely! Uh, RJ
R.J. Haq
Yeah I mean I think Joe made a great point in terms of like the broad view of it but just looking at it like more, you know, right now this episode is going to come out in August. In September, all the airwaves, September and October, are going to be flooded with AI generated uh you know campaign ads we saw it in the primary the [Thomas] Massie primary with an AI ad of him uh you know in some sort of relationship with Ilhan Omar and AOC um and uh you know we're gonna see more and more AI generated ads like that and how without media literacy skills that we are that most people already don't have, how are we going to then uh you know interpret that and I think that's gonna be a key factor. It's you know 2024 was a podcast cycle election cycle and now this midterm is truly the AI ad cycle I think because that's really going to determine a lot of what we see this fall.
Babette Faehmel
Well we might we might have to come back together and talk about the new wave of AI generated campaign campaigning. Amalini!
Amalini Fernando
If I may add one more thing part of the reason why it's so hard to regulate technology is because the r the the the rate at which technology changes is so fast. It's super impossible it's impossible to keep up.
Babette Faehmel
Right.
Amalini Fernando
It's hard for politics and policy to keep up with that um at that pace and regulate that and we can pass as many policies as we want to regulate deepfakes or information um quality um but people will always find a way around that and so it's just nearly impossible to regulate technology.
AI Deepfakes And Fast Moving Tech
Amalini Fernando
So ultimately perhaps it comes down to media literacy maybe it comes down to good uh journalism maybe it comes down to making sure that we fact checked that we as consumers um are responsible.
Babette Faehmel
Right.
Amalini Fernando
And so perhaps ultimately it comes down to individual responsibility after all .
Babette Faehmel
It, it does, and also it comes it comes back and really I mean this should make me happy it comes back to education, like, really good education: information literacy critical thinking. The humanities and the liberal arts um will save the day - speaking at a self-interested individual - um but yeah it does it does worry me what's um coming before we can actually create a kind of like critical thinking resilience against all this like wave of misinformation but Warren and Ashley so while you still have like I don't know while we maybe have like five more minutes with the experts here in the room are there any any any like last questions that you really want to get off your chest?
Warren Baynes
Nothing I can think of right now.
Babette Faehmel
All right I mean we can we can edit out the the silences so you can you can think you can think. Ashley?
Ashley Lucie Lumbala
I'm thinking!
Babette Faehmel
Okay you're thinking. Alright anybody else wants to bring up something that you still like you felt we should have talked about but didn't?
Erica Smith
We've talked about a lot of negatives. I think one of the things that gives me hope though is the organization that has happened around protests and rallies and people coming together unifying around a cause and supporting it and making sure
Building Social Capital Through Community
Erica Smith
Their voices in mass are heard. So I think that that's a really powerful thing that younger people and older people are all participating in. It gets back to what he's pointing earlier that it's not just what age range you're in or what income level you're in. There are certain issues that people care about and they're willing to come together to make sure that their voices are heard. And I think that's that's really powerful right now to see.
Babette Faehmel
Right, right. Joe, you said earlier you saw, um a political um resonance or political implications of the Knicks and their victory. Is that something that you want to elaborate on?
Joseph Scanlon
Um, well yeah, I mean, in some ways, the um the idea of I mean, if we really want to go down this road, right? I think I saw a statistic that the uh Spurs actually led across those five games close to 70% of the time. And that that you know, the Knicks, the 30% of the time they led, that was the most crucial times to lead, right? End of the game. But what I'm getting at here is right um that a movement to overcome something that seems pretty tough to overcome, right, is possible. I think there's some symbolism there. Um, and that is right, that although things don't necessarily seem possible, uh, or excuse me, probable, they're not yet impossible. And it's just going to take a really good team effort with everyone just really understanding our respective roles and working together, right, and doing what we individually do best, but only putting that, but putting that into a group setting. Um, you know, and that but it that as long as there are enough strength and momentum and belief, things become possible.
Babette Faehmel
Okay. All right. RJ?
R.J. Haq
Yeah, to quote our former coach Tom Thibodeau, uh, the love is in the work, right? Um, and so at the end of the day, that's what a lot of New Yorkers embrace. And I think to take a more broad perspective than Joe, you know, going to the parade and you know, being together with community, it truly was building social capital. And social capital strengthens democracy. Um, you know, I've I've gone to the city many, many times in my life, uh, but to see the energy there uh and to see the social capital in the community and the you know, one of the largest city in the in the countr in the nation. And you know, the mayor has said, you know, the Knicks made it a small town because everyone was connected. So uh, you know, I think sports can do that, uh, but also, you know, coming together on uh on other things can do that. And it's just about finding what's in your community, right? Uh, you know, to pull people together. You know, I I am assistant coach for a high school basketball team. So can our little village come together in the winter? And and you know, that is the same kind of social capital at a much smaller scale. You know what I mean? So uh the uh democracy is more than just voting, uh, but voting is the beginning of our democratic citizenship. Um, and if we can really focus on that and then continue to build community, uh there there are positive things ahead, as Joe said.
Babette Faehmel
Yeah, absolutely. Uh that's that's definitely um definitely something I need to hear, and I think that a lot of people need to hear more about. Sally.
Sally Friedman
I I I think I was gonna say some of the same things, but just that it was really, really nice to have a unifying event that that all kinds of people could come together and be excited in a in a partisan world. It was really, and and I'm from New York City, so it was it was great, just just the unifying factor of it too.
Babette Faehmel
Okay, yeah. We need more community-centered, unifying events in order to get out of this, like, I don't know, malaise that we currently see unfolding on social media and some of the news media. Um, Amalini.
Amalini Fernando
Pay more attention to local politics and what's happening in your community. Go to your local zoning board meeting. There's a lot of drama in those meetings, and you can learn a lot about your community. Absolutely. Um, subscribe to your local newspaper, so buying it.
Erica Smith
And if you can't subscribe, go to the library where where publications are available.
Amalini Fernando
Yeah.
Babette Faehmel
Right, right.
Amalini Fernando
Um, there's a lot of politics that happen in the local level, and I think if we all engage more, we'll realize, we'll all understand that there's a lot of things, a lot of impact that we can make.
Babette Faehmel
Definitely. It's all like it depends on us and how much we want to put in into staying informed and staying engaged, right? Okay, well, all right.
Final Takeaways And Credits
Babette Faehmel
Well, thank you so much, everyone, for turning out to educate us on like the things happening and what we can do better. Um, Joe, R.J., Sally, Wendy, Amalini, and Erica, thank you so much for coming out. Thank you, Ashley and Warren. Thank you like like as always. And um, this um, I guess this is this is it. So, um, thanks again. Many Voices, One Call is made possible thanks to the contributions of the SUNY Schenectady Foundation. We are especially grateful for the School of Music and particular Stan Isachson's continuing generous support for the technical details. Um, Heather Meaney, Karen Tansky, and Jessica McHugh Green deserve credit for promoting the podcast. Thanks also to our Vice President of Academic Affairs, the College President, the Student Government Association, and the student activities advisor. Stay tuned for more episodes like this wherever you get your podcast.